Posts by Cold Steel

13

CHRISTIANS: Are we meant to identify the last days?

by Zoos in

i've been reading articles from ronald e. frye's, the christian respondent.

he puts forward this understanding of mark 13, mathew 24 and luke 21:.

(1) the destruction of jerusalem is set forth in graphic detail.

Cold Steel

Jesus used prophecy to show the people that God knew all things from the beginning and to show them the signs of his [second] coming, which all the prophets looked forward to.

The JWs, never content to let a good thing go to waste, decided to poison pen the entire thing by concentrating on the last great battle of the Age. And they ripped it out of the Bible and turned it from a local mideastern battle between Israel and its neighbors to a great battle like Ragnarök, a turbid worldwide affair enrapt with smoke and flame. Like a whirlwind it shall come upon the face on the the entire earth, and when the dust settles, the Jehovah's Witnesses will find themselvess delivered from a wicked generation, whilst the non-members will be dead from flaming sulphur and fire.

It's pretty silly.

11

"New Light" Annual Meeting Oct 2013" Olive Branch Extended To Apostates and Unfaithful JWs.

by AuntConnie in

it's absurd to think jehovah's slave should take heed or listen to advice from the ever growing mob leaving the organization.

still, it's your problem you can't keep pace with our present truth as we continue to evolve.

why should we listen to the the vast army of apostates and evil slaves, they don't want a gente, more humble org, they need to fight fire with fire!

Cold Steel

Aunt Connie did make me wonder how many people would come back, hat in hand, and go back to their old lives if the path was made straight and clear. So what would it take to make you people go back? If the JWs reformed itself, let people question doctrine, read other peoples' religious material, baptize their own children and make weekly meetings truly optional. "We realize our youth are dating and want to have a good time, so meetings are not to be forced on them. It's also an excellent time to foster trust," the Governing Body said in an announcement released earlier today. "As for our elderly members, we encourage them to attend weekly meetings; however, we understand that once the kids are out of the house, they may want to spend more time together." And finally, "We now fully encourage our children to seek higher education as the glory of God is intelligence. We cannot be in the world but not of the world unless we know about the world and the people in it. We also cannot be a light unto the world if our batteries are old, tired and lack vigor. It's good and proper we should occasionally question ourselves, so we urge our elders to show the same sort of compassion towards others as they would themselves. Disfellowshipment as a disciplinary device should only be used to quell outright rebellion where the member shows not the proper respect."

That would be a good step, but would it cause anyone to come back?

38

Don't Allow Common "John and Jane Doe" (spiritually dead) to Corporate Broadcast! Keep us Clean!

by AuntConnie in

life's not so great, i've been sulking after it was annouced, the annual meeting of directors is allowing everyone to view the event!

here comes the congregational corpes "john and jane does" to a meeting they should not be allowed to attend!

jehovah's witnesses enjoy their royalty just like americans do.

Cold Steel

Don't worry about quality meals for the leaders. Is not the hireling deserving of his wages? I've only heard rumors, but the Bethel leadership is going to implement an editorial policy due to the fact that some of Jehovah's Witnesses are confused about whether some of the inconsistent doctrine that appears from time to time in the Society's publications are speculation or "new light" being received and revealed by the Governing Body. The revised editorial policy stipulates that all references to the GB will be printed with capital letters at the beginning of pertinent words and that the Governing Body will henceforth be referred to as authorities, similar to the apostles and prophets of holy writ.

One of Their new pronouncements is that while They receive New Light from Heaven, This is not to be considered to be new canon or binding scripture, nor is the New Light to be considered revelation in the sense that ancient men of Jehovah received it, such as by angels, visions, such as received by John on Patmos and Stephen whilst he was being stoned, nor actual light such as that experienced by Paul. In short, Members of the Governing Board receive "impressions" from the Holy Active Force of God, then it will be dispersed by Them through the Watchtower and Awake! magazines.

Also, Bethel has announced that when attending conferences or visiting Kingdom Halls, no one except elders and overseers should approach Them or speak to Them unless specifically addressed by the individual Member. And if you're notified that you will be introduced to the Member, members of all ranks should wash their hands first with antibacterial soap. If you are sick or running a temperature, you should not shake hands, but bend swiftly at the waist with your arms held against your legs. When shaking hands, members should wait until the Body Member offers you His Hand. And finally, in keeping with the modesty of the GB, it will not be inappropriate to refer to them as, "Your Glory." This reference is, for now, a reference to Jehovah's Glory, which is manifest through his Servants, the Holy Ones of Israel.

Finally members and investigators should not attempt to write or contact GB Members or attempt to use Them as a means of reversing disciplinary actions at lower levels of the food chain, a term that is INAPPROPRIATE and DISRESPECTFUL to describe Jehovah's anointed chain of command.

Please stay tuned for new policies, clarifications and, oh yeah...light.

Ancient GB member.

12

What Does It Take to Be Disfellowshiped For Apostasy?

by Cold Steel in

if one meets privately with an elder and brings up some religious concerns havin to do with doctrine, does the person risk being disfellowshiped?

does attitude have anything to do with it?

or persistance?

Cold Steel

Are you guys saying that when you have legitimate questions, that these discussions culminate in a loyalty question, or questions?

I'm amazed that these loyalty questions so quickly and universally center on the top hierarchal structure of the Society. The important parts of this religion is that in the late 19th Century, a group of Bible students decided that the restoration of biblical Christianity rested on a dedicated study of the Bible, with no outside materials to cause predilections in interpretation. It was only after the students came up with their core doctrines that they began publishing opinions and establishing a self-appointed leadership and man-made religion. In other words, there was no heavenly sign of approval, no angels heralding the restoration of the gospel, no visions, no revelations.

In short, the leadership having total authority in the Society is one of the key components to the belief structure, and if you don't buy into it, you're out. If you tell the elders that you accept the GB as chosen by God and, together, having the status of a modern prophet, how can you help but believe ALL the doctrines? If you question soul sleeping or the Society's bizarre view of Armageddon, all the elders need to do is refer you back to the GB!

12

What Does It Take to Be Disfellowshiped For Apostasy?

by Cold Steel in

if one meets privately with an elder and brings up some religious concerns havin to do with doctrine, does the person risk being disfellowshiped?

does attitude have anything to do with it?

or persistance?

Cold Steel

Farkel: Brooklyn must just love me because they cannot touch me!

Actually, I just got off the phone with them. They said they know who you are, where you are, and that you're out. Oh, yeah, and they said to make sure the door doesn't hit you in the ass on the way out!

Nice try.

13

Could remembering what kept us captive in the WBTS prison help us spring our loved ones?

by Fernando in

is it essentially unscriptural fear of death and fear of the big a that keeps wbts/gb followers captive, passive, unthinking, unquestioning and blind?.

is it the unscriptural promises of organisational salvation and baptismal salvation and works salvation that keeps wbts/gb followers on a treadmill to nowhere?.

Cold Steel

In other words you think it's the threats...the threat of everlasting death, the threat of being cut off from one's family and friends, of incurring Jehovah's wrath and its consequences. Perhaps. Perhaps, too, some wives don't want to lose their husbands or vice versa, or their kids. And their dogs and cats.

It's true that all the above keeps some members active, but there are also people who use the Society to gain friends and prestige. Some like to live secure in the notion that they're of the anointed class, or that they're elders, or overseers, or even that they're known for their staunch defense of Jehovah-God and his earthly kingdom, and that everyone looks up to them for their encyclopedic knowledge of the Society and its doctrines. Perhaps they have every single publication ever to roll off the Brooklyn presses and they know people stand in awe of brother Knowital.

And others...just because they have nowhere else to go. Maybe they lean on the local congregation and its leaders for financial support, or that they are secure in the knowledge that people will always be there to visit them in their old age.

And finally, some people actually believe in it. They have looked at every doctrine and asked themselves, what other church has all the correct doctrines? Perhaps no angel from heaven has come down to call their leaders and give them authority from above...that doesn't matter. Using the process of elimination, they've determined that the Society is the only organization on Earth that teaches "the truth that leads to eternal life." They have a ticket to either Heaven or a glorified Earth and unless someone snatches it from them (i.e., disfellowships them), they will be left standing while fire falls from the sky and consumes EBT (everyone but them). Far be it from them to stumble this close to...well, you know. (It's just around the corner.)

There are, unfortunately, some "Christians" who believe that if people remain JWs, that they will lose any chance of everlasting life and be thrust down to an eternal Hell. I'm a Mormon and have been damned and denounced more times than I can count, and before that I was a non-denominational Christian. But I never believed that the Christian God would condemn anyone to an eternal Hell for their heartfelt beliefs. Nor for anything else, no matter how heinous. A person can go to Hell for any one of a number of reasons, but I believe that it's remedial in nature and does not last forever. The WTBTS condemns all non-JWs to eternal destruction, and thus use fear as a tool to keep people in line. So other secular Christians also use fear, just in other ways. Any sane person would be terrified at the thought of burning forever in a furnace of everlasting fire, ever burning but never consumed.

So yes, fear works!

16

Interesting Observation by a Coworker

by breakfast of champions in

over the past couple years, i've confided my whole "apostate experience" to one of my coworkers, everything from 607 and 1914, to disfellowshipping and being raised with the constant fear my worldly family would die in armageddon.

so he knows the whole witness thing.. anyway, he tells me this experience he had on tuesday:.

you wouldn't believe this, boc.

Cold Steel

My wife HATES religion...all religion and religious discussions. One time we were sitting at a restaurant and these two men were seated next to us speaking in a foreign language. My wife, who speaks the language, listened for awhile and told me that one of the men was a Jehovah's Witness and the other wasn't. The JW was complaining that there were no eligible women at his Kingdom Hall and his friend was trying to set him up with a friend of his, also not a JW. The friend was telling him how "hot" she was and the JW was non-commital and resisting. Then his friend said that if God wasn't going to send him a nice JW gal, then he was justified in dating someone outside of his religion. The interesting thing is the language was Farsi (Persian for you Bethelites), and the woman the guy was trying to fix his friend up with was a blonde.

12

What Does It Take to Be Disfellowshiped For Apostasy?

by Cold Steel in

if one meets privately with an elder and brings up some religious concerns havin to do with doctrine, does the person risk being disfellowshiped?

does attitude have anything to do with it?

or persistance?

Cold Steel

If one meets privately with an elder and brings up some religious concerns havin to do with doctrine, does the person risk being disfellowshiped? Does attitude have anything to do with it? Or persistance? If a person is respectful when he approaches an elder or overseer, is it handled as an infraction or does the congregation authority answer with kindness and patience? At what point does the smile vanish and the lips get a bit tight? At what point is administrative action deemed necessary?

Has anyone here approached someone in authority expecting a compassionate answer and been met with threats instead? And if so, what usually happens when you take it to the next level? Also, I imagine if you backed off, things would be okay, but is there a point of no return where you've essentially sealed your own fate? Is a swift apology good enough to get one out of trouble for questioning something?

I also understand superstition is rife at Kingdom Halls. Can you imagine how much fun someone like Derren Brown could have in just one Sunday meeting?

3

What About the Resurrection? The JUST and the UNJUST?

by Cold Steel in

the scriptures speak about the resurrection of both the just and the unjust.

all will be resurrected.

paul teaches that although all will be resurrected, not all will be resurrected to the same glory.

Cold Steel

Badfish: The resurrection spoken of in 1 Corinthians 15 is a spiritual resurrection - not fleshly. It is talking about being raised as a spirit, not into a human body of flesh. That's why it says "It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one." So they wouldn't be resurrected into mortal fleshly human bodies that can die a physical death again. But if you die as a spirit, you must be thrown into the Lake of Fire, which means the Second Death (Revelation 20:14-15).

I agree that it’s a spiritual resurrection, but what exactly is that? Does it mean that people are resurrected as spirits? The scripture doesn’t say that. When Jesus appeared to the apostles, they at first thought he’d been resurrected as a spirit. But he was quick to explain to them that this was not the case. “Why do fears arise in your hearts,” he asked. “Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Handle me and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and hones as ye see me have.”

To emphasize his point, Jesus suddenly asked, “Have ye any meat?” And they gave him a piece of broiled fish and honey comb, and Jesus ate it before them. Is it possible that Jesus was hungry after three days in the tomb? That seems rather unlikely; instead, it appeared to be a teaching device.

Paul later writes, “ Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be [in the resurrection]: but we know that, when [Christ] shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. ”

In short, according to the scriptures, our resurrection will be like Christ’s; yet it will be a spiritual resurrection. So knowing it also will be a physical resurrection, how can it be both physical and spiritual? And how did Jesus go through the walls and ceilings of the building? The Jehovah's Witnesses have used that as evidence that Jesus was indeed a spirit. How else could he have passed through solid walls unless he was a spirit? That argument today is completely specious as it was when it was conceived. What we know today of quantum physics, wormholes, interdimensional travel, particles that can coexist in different dimensions and much more. Jesus, having all power and authority from the Father, could easily go through walls and ceilings.

So what is spiritual resurrection? Again, a man, having separated from the flesh through death, becomes a spirit...a being that is limited in what it can do and experience. Then, in the resurrection, that spirit is reunited with the flesh and becomes greatly empowered. But instead of having a corruptible body of flesh and blood, we become perfected beings of immortal flesh, bone and spirit. That is why Jesus said, “A spirit hath not flesh and bone as ye see I have.” Thus we see that Jesus was perfect in his being. He was not a spirit as he was previously when he was Yahweh in the generations before his birth. He was now in the “express image” of his Father and like him in every way.

The term “spiritual resurrection” was an almost irreconcilable issue with the early church fathers. Tertullian acknowledged Christ’s physical body, but was puzzled by the reference to a spiritual resurrection. It was, perhaps, the Spirit of God that animated Christ’s physical body. Whereas they saw the complexities in the issue, the Jehovah's Witnesses rushed in and immediately jumped to the dubious conclusion that Jesus was resurrected as a spirit, manufactured a physical body to deceive the apostles into thinking he wasn’t a spirit, then spent forty days with them as a physical being.

In fact, though, Jesus became a dual nature, being a perfected man of flesh and bone, and spirit. Thus, he would remain forever. That’s why his body was missing from the tomb. It had been restored to him in a glorified condition. And, we’re told, our resurrection can be like Christ’s.

17

Does God's word apply to God?

by mauiboy in

the tv news about syria is truly disgusting, and it is only the tip of a much bigger situation that has been going on for milleniums.

:"mans inhumanity to man".

but i can't get the scripture at james 4:17 out of my mind.

Cold Steel

Ah, Nathan, how do you know God doesn't have feet? Jesus had feet, and is said to be in the "express image" of the Father. Also, that man is in the image of God. The big question is, why would God have, or need, feet, hands, arms, hands, eyes and so forth?

All those who have purported to have seen God say He is, in form, like a man.

Fascinating, eh?